Do any of you still play AFF 1E (Dungeoneer) ?

GreatArc
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Do any of you still play AFF 1E (Dungeoneer) ?

Postby GreatArc » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:29 am

I have yet to make my first foray into the AFF 2E rules system, and while there seem to be many terrific improvements to the game, many of you would agree that what made the AFF system so great was its stripped down minimalist rules system which was a rare and wonderful alternative to just about any other RPG. I think that any addition to the rules system had better add tremendous value with little complexity to keep in the spirit of keeping its original basic appeal. For instance, while only adding a scant few pages to the rulebook, Bottley has given us an easy but remarkably well thought-out ARMOUR system.

On the other hand, I feel like the addition of Sorcery and Magic Points, etc, are unnecessary. I truly loved the STAMINA point cost for spells which was very easy and versatile. Making priestly magic simply the same system with different spell options was also terrific.

There are a growing amount of non-gamers (in my city, anyhow) who are getting together to play different RPGs casually for the first time, and often the game changes with each night. The added complexity of the AFF 2E rules almost make it so that there is no longer a way to simply have players dive right into the game with a few brief minutes of explanation as to the 3 Ability Scores and how they work, a couple of sentences on combat, and that anyone with a Magic special skill may cast a few magic spells from a list with the cost in STAMINA right beside them. It takes me 5 minutes to get players accustomed to the AFF 1E Rules, another 10 with guidance to roll a character and choose a few special skills and spells from the book, a couple more to equip them, and we are off to the races. Combat we can explain on the fly with the first minor encounter I stick in right away as a fast paced intro to AFF Rules. And essentially, that's it.

Armour is helpful and requires a tiny 60 second add-on conversation one time after the first hit during the first combat sequence, but otherwise is in perfect keeping with the spirit of AFF simplicity.

Anyone else still play 1E and regard 2E as the "Advanced" Edition, must like what AD&D was to D&D? I have never been a fan of home-brew gaming and always enjoyed going by the book in nearly every RPG I've ever played. AFF was just so special in its incredibly kind learning curve and allowed you to mow through combat quickly enough to chew up volumes of adventure in a single evening. While I believe that great improvements have been made in terms of reducing overpowered Heroes and, again, really great touches to the system like ARMOUR and monster 'weapon' damage tables, I think AFF is the superior one-shot/single night system for beginning or casual groups. Anyone else agree?


PS: None of this is intended as a sleight against Graham, who has done a remarkable job producing this new game and these beautiful new volumes, and I am truly grateful for his efforts. You can clearly see it was the work of someone who loved the game and thought very carefully about the changes he made and making the rulebooks fit together better and more sensibly. From what I've seen of his comments over the boards he is altogether comfortable with hearing objective discussions/reviews/critiques/raves about 2E and it goes without saying that I am pleased enough with the job he's done to purchase every single AFF 2E rulebook that has come out, and will happily purchase any others which come out.
shintokamikaze
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Re: Do any of you still play AFF 1E (Dungeoneer) ?

Postby shintokamikaze » Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:09 pm

Why? AFF1e was so broken, and 2nd edition fixed most of the problems, It's not perfect but it's close :!:
Robb 1
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Re: Do any of you still play AFF 1E (Dungeoneer) ?

Postby Robb 1 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:16 pm

having just set up my gaming group to start playing AFF2 it took about the same time as it did for AFF though we haven't started playing yet due to dm (me) only having limited writing time. once pcs created 2minutes explaining mechanics and rolling dice to demonstrate they understood the system one is an experienced gamer the other 2 are total novices.

I LOVE THE OLD AFF but think AFF2 is actually more streamlined and polished game though would happily play either :lol:
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Re: Do any of you still play AFF 1E (Dungeoneer) ?

Postby Slloyd14 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:12 pm

I loved the old AFF when it came out, but it had lots of probles that AFF2 addressed. I wrote about it more in these posts:

http://www.lloydofgamebooks.com/2011/04/my-wishlist-for-2nd-edition-advanced.html

http://www.lloydofgamebooks.com/2011/04/how-to-break-1st-edition-advanced.html

http://www.lloydofgamebooks.com/2011/04/how-to-break-1st-edition-advanced_17.html

One thing that AFF2 could take from AFF1 is presenting adventures as movies in a lighthearted way. I quite enjoyed that.
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Baldrick
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Re: Do any of you still play AFF 1E (Dungeoneer) ?

Postby Baldrick » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:49 pm

I'd be happy to give AFF 1e a try, but from the sounds of it, I'd prefer AFF 2e. It has become my favorite RPG and I've been collecting and playing different systems for over two decades.
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Laurence
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Re: Do any of you still play AFF 1E (Dungeoneer) ?

Postby Laurence » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:09 pm

GreatArc, if you're truly looking for a super-simple, old-school RPG that can be taught in five minutes, go get a copy of the original Fighting Fantasy book. Not Dungeoneer. I'm talking about the one with the unfortunate illustration of the tiger-man on the cover:

https://www.amazon.com/Fighting-Fantasy ... 140317090/

If you want to add a super-simple magic system, pick up The Citadel of Chaos, and use the spells from the front of that book.

(Or, just get a copy of Legend of Zagor and run it as a multi-player RPG.)

I've done it. It works perfectly, at least for a little while. People can get their feet wet.

Then, if your players are eager for more, you can move on to the new AFF. At that point, it's not such a big jump.
Lorian
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Re: Do any of you still play AFF 1E (Dungeoneer) ?

Postby Lorian » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:56 pm

We never got the original AFF, and to be honest I learnt the rules in less than 15 mins, so I don't think it's worth getting dungeoneer
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Ruffnut
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Re: Do any of you still play AFF 1E (Dungeoneer) ?

Postby Ruffnut » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:56 pm

@Lorian

Ditto
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Re: Do any of you still play AFF 1E (Dungeoneer) ?

Postby Nuvole! » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:23 pm

GreatArc wrote: The added complexity of the AFF 2E rules

Are you sure that in AFF2 there is added complexity compared to AFF1 (or FF RPG + the rules in The Riddling Reaver)?
I haven't experienced it, honestly.
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Re: Do any of you still play AFF 1E (Dungeoneer) ?

Postby Robb 1 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:31 pm

Slloyd14 wrote:I loved the old AFF when it came out, but it had lots of probles that AFF2 addressed. I wrote about it more in these posts:

http://www.lloydofgamebooks.com/2011/04/my-wishlist-for-2nd-edition-advanced.html

http://www.lloydofgamebooks.com/2011/04/how-to-break-1st-edition-advanced.html

http://www.lloydofgamebooks.com/2011/04/how-to-break-1st-edition-advanced_17.html

One thing that AFF2 could take from AFF1 is presenting adventures as movies in a lighthearted way. I quite enjoyed that.



I agree I also enjoyed the ideas for props you can use (all very tongue in Cheek ) Its worth buying the original AFF for them alone :lol:
It worked well with the group Idirected (DM) AFF 1 with one long wet summer at work at an outdoor swimming pool
(which I wont name on grounds of incrimination and getting paid whilst playing it :) )with no customers in it kept us going through the long wet days
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Re: Do any of you still play AFF 1E (Dungeoneer) ?

Postby shintokamikaze » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:55 pm

Hullalla wrote:
GreatArc wrote: The added complexity of the AFF 2E rules

Are you sure that in AFF2 there is added complexity compared to AFF1 (or FF RPG + the rules in The Riddling Reaver)?
I haven't experienced it, honestly.

Armour and talents were added in Aff2
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Re: Do any of you still play AFF 1E (Dungeoneer) ?

Postby Nuvole! » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:06 pm

shintokamikaze wrote:
Hullalla wrote:
GreatArc wrote: The added complexity of the AFF 2E rules

Are you sure that in AFF2 there is added complexity compared to AFF1 (or FF RPG + the rules in The Riddling Reaver)?
I haven't experienced it, honestly.

Armour and talents were added in Aff2

Armour works along the very same mechanics introduced for Weapons in The Riddling Reaver (for FF RPG), becoming this way a logical expansion of the concept and Talent is fundamentally a Special Skill that you can't improve further. Not sure this adds complexity.
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shintokamikaze
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Re: Do any of you still play AFF 1E (Dungeoneer) ?

Postby shintokamikaze » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:41 pm

Hullalla wrote:
shintokamikaze wrote:
Hullalla wrote:Are you sure that in AFF2 there is added complexity compared to AFF1 (or FF RPG + the rules in The Riddling Reaver)?
I haven't experienced it, honestly.

Armour and talents were added in Aff2

Armour works along the very same mechanics introduced for Weapons in The Riddling Reaver (for FF RPG), becoming this way a logical expansion of the concept and Talent is fundamentally a Special Skill that you can't improve further. Not sure this adds complexity.

:lol:
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Re: Do any of you still play AFF 1E (Dungeoneer) ?

Postby Baldrick » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:20 pm

Talents play an important part in my view... they allow you to differentiate between heroes (representing something unique that another player could never have) and allow you to create cool background stories for each character. My favourite talents are exactly those that seem to imply a certain past, like Knighted, Learned or Dark Veil. I would love to see the Talents list greatly expanded to cover different regional flavours. For example, I am thinking of sticking a Conan-esque city in the Desert of Skulls, and some Talents might be:

Pit Slave: This hero was once enslaved in the infamous Pits and still bears the marks of that experience. (S)he automatically gains the trust of other slaves, as long as (s)he does not act haughtily towards them, and can rely on their help. Reduce the hero's status by 1 to a minimum of zero.

Acolyte of Set: This hero willingly or unwillingly served in the underground temples of Set, the Snake God. (S)he can identify any poison ir even the presence of poison with a successful skill test (a failure means the hero must take a Luck test or become poisoned in the attempt).

Thieves Guild: This hero was trained in the infamous thieves guilds. In addition to knowing the secret signs of the thieves, this hero knows the hiding place of a well-guarded treasure lode somewhere in the city. However, due to a falling out with the guild masters, the hero now has a mark on his/her head!
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Re: Do any of you still play AFF 1E (Dungeoneer) ?

Postby shintokamikaze » Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:03 am

Baldrick wrote:Talents play an important part in my view... they allow you to differentiate between heroes (representing something unique that another player could never have) and allow you to create cool background stories for each character. My favourite talents are exactly those that seem to imply a certain past, like Knighted, Learned or Dark Veil. I would love to see the Talents list greatly expanded to cover different regional flavours. For example, I am thinking of sticking a Conan-esque city in the Desert of Skulls, and some Talents might be:

Pit Slave: This hero was once enslaved in the infamous Pits and still bears the marks of that experience. (S)he automatically gains the trust of other slaves, as long as (s)he does not act haughtily towards them, and can rely on their help. Reduce the hero's status by 1 to a minimum of zero.

Acolyte of Set: This hero willingly or unwillingly served in the underground temples of Set, the Snake God. (S)he can identify any poison ir even the presence of poison with a successful skill test (a failure means the hero must take a Luck test or become poisoned in the attempt).

Thieves Guild: This hero was trained in the infamous thieves guilds. In addition to knowing the secret signs of the thieves, this hero knows the hiding place of a well-guarded treasure lode somewhere in the city. However, due to a falling out with the guild masters, the hero now has a mark on his/her head!

Yeh talents work well, that desert city sounds epic, I hope you share it

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