First impressions....

Baldrick
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Re: First impressions....

Postby Baldrick » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:49 pm

If you mean AFF 2e, then I am soooo in agreement with you. It is, with literally no hesitation or reservation, a perfect game.
Nuvole!
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Re: First impressions....

Postby Nuvole! » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:10 am

Well, nothing is absolutely perfect, but it is perfect for the way I like to play now: quick to start and simple to run and play, allowing focus on the story and the fun.
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Baldrick
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Re: First impressions....

Postby Baldrick » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:33 am

Interesting, how would you improve on it?
Nuvole!
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Re: First impressions....

Postby Nuvole! » Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:06 pm

Sometimes you roll under, some other times you roll over a score... it makes sense to me to take a side and, for example, roll always over.
Then, for example, you can fine tune the Special Skills and Talents to your specific setting.
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Baldrick
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Re: First impressions....

Postby Baldrick » Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:10 am

Hullalla wrote:Sometimes you roll under, some other times you roll over a score... it makes sense to me to take a side and, for example, roll always over.
Then, for example, you can fine tune the Special Skills and Talents to your specific setting.


Interesting, I certainly understand and respect your view. For my own personal taste, I've grown to extremely dislike "Target Number" systems (and that's being gentle, to be honest...). I'll explain why, just for the sake of discussion: they are needlessly abstract, since the referee must always figure out what target number to set for a roll. To be clear, ALL dice roll systems are abstract... but with target numbers, there is just an added layer that I've come to see as totally unnecessary. What difference is it that you roll 2d6+skill over, e.g., a target number of 15, especially when "roll under your skill" has essentially the same effect... you roll dice and you either make it or don't make it. It may seem really easy and simple and minor, but target numbers add literally nothing to a game for me. And every game uses them... basically every RPG on the market (perhaps with the exception of Heroes & Other Worlds, a Fantasy Trip clone and a very good game in its own right).

I don't see AFF opposed rolls as target number rolls... they are "roll high," it is true, but there is no extra step for the referee to make an additional abstract decision. You just each roll your dice and see what happens.

I can completely see why someone would think I am being hyperbolic here... it doesn't seem like much to decide on a target number, but when a game is so lightning streamlined like AFF, it is literally doubling the amount of abstraction that goes into a roll and over time, it takes away from the real point of the game (at least for me): actually dealing with the consequences of a dice roll!

Anyway, for me AFF 2e perfectly achieves exactly what it sets out to be, so as far as I'm concerned, it is a perfect game!
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Re: First impressions....

Postby Lorian » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:26 am

I personally always use the target number system!
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Re: First impressions....

Postby Nuvole! » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:01 pm

Well.... I'm a really poor Director, but more than once I made humiliating mistakes by asking for rolling under when it was a situation for rolling over and vice versa... :oops: so moving to a system where you always either roll under or roll over has some appeal to me... :roll:
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Re: First impressions....

Postby SkinnyOrc » Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:00 am

Baldrick wrote:For my own personal taste, I've grown to extremely dislike "Target Number" systems (and that's being gentle, to be honest...).
I'm with you on this one. It's a fashion without a purpose as far as I can see. Making all the rolls go the same way seems a bit OCD, like lining up all your shoes to the millimetre ;)

Baldrick wrote:I don't see AFF opposed rolls as target number rolls...
Agree and AFF is consistent, unopposed rolls are roll under and opposed are roll high (not over because there's no target). That's just what happens doing unopposed and opposed against the same stat. Quite different from games that had unopposed rolls going in different directions, not that I remember that causing dramas either.

Baldrick wrote:Anyway, for me AFF 2e perfectly achieves exactly what it sets out to be, so as far as I'm concerned, it is a perfect game!
Well on the big stuff anyway. Little tweaks around the edges don't count!
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Re: First impressions....

Postby SkinnyOrc » Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:05 am

Hullalla wrote:I'm a really poor Director, but more than once I made humiliating mistakes by asking for rolling under when it was a situation for rolling over and vice versa
I really don't think that makes you a poor director mate, always getting the mechanics right is far less important than immersing the players in what's going on.
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Re: First impressions....

Postby shintokamikaze » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:48 pm

SkinnyOrc wrote:
Hullalla wrote:I'm a really poor Director, but more than once I made humiliating mistakes by asking for rolling under when it was a situation for rolling over and vice versa
I really don't think that makes you a poor director mate, always getting the mechanics right is far less important than immersing the players in what's going on.

I make that mistake sometimes :lol:
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Re: First impressions....

Postby shintokamikaze » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:52 pm

Hullalla wrote:Well.... I'm a really poor Director, but more than once I made humiliating mistakes by asking for rolling under when it was a situation for rolling over and vice versa... :oops: so moving to a system where you always either roll under or roll over has some appeal to me... :roll:

I had that problem, I just made a small list of each roll on my GM screen. I don't like target number rolls
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Re: First impressions....

Postby Dupont » Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:26 pm

Also you can nod wisely when your players pull you up on a mistake and mutter calmly that something they don't yet know just happened... Or get a rules lawyer in your group. :lol:

My favourite rule in RPGs is that the GM can ignore any old rule he feels like, when he feels like it. Or words to that effect...
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Re: First impressions....

Postby gallowglacht » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:00 am

WooHoo!

So, now I've got to play it :) Everyone had fun and wants to play again, which is good. They got as far as the Cyclops, which was mauling the hell out of them until it was ZAPped into oblivion by Rhana after a few rounds preparation. The Sorcerer wiffed once or twice casting quickly and from then on cast spells after prepping for a couple of rounds and became much more effective.
The players are doing well so far and have 2 of the keys and Dragonfire. They missed the giver of sleep though.
Everyone got into the old school spirit of it, even the player who had *gasp* never played a Fighting Fantasy book before. 2 of the players have pretty good memories of the book, but are doing a good job of not abusing it. One player remembered the Cyclops encounter exactly, so decided he would roll randomly to decide what to do. There was much silliness but also some decent planning and tactics when needed.
The last experience the players have had with old school dungeon bashes were with Delving Deeper and Basic D&D, and while I still love them, AFF works better. The PC's are a little more capable, sturdy and have more options. They also wont advance at the breakneck speed D&D characters advance at.
I still have a lot of the rules, modifiers and spells to absorb and get used to/remember (I haven't played Dungeoneer in over a decade). But the basics are simple and work well.

The only concern I really have going forward, is trying to get the books. I was holding off on buying Blacksand and the Heroes Companion until I got to see it in play, but they were sold out in Spirit Games by the time I went to order. I ordered Out of the Pit and Titan from another store instead, but was reduced to buying the Heroes Companion in PDF, like some kind of savage.
Will the books be restocked, or are they OOP?
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Re: First impressions....

Postby Dupont » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:40 am

Sounds excellent, its quite funny how far your group have got. My group have meandered so slowly it almost sounds like a much bigger dungeon - dithering, arguing, changing minds, picking locks then being talked out of opening doors as it slows down gameplay. Less haste more speed should be my group's moto lol.

I've been looking forward to hearing how you got on, I'm glad you enjoyed it.

As far as books go, message Graham, he usually gets anything you need so I wouldn't worry at all.
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gallowglacht
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Re: First impressions....

Postby gallowglacht » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:45 pm

Happy accident with the books I was ordering. Apparently my fat fingers entered the wrong payment details on the site, which is why the sale was blocked, and the stuff was still in stock, it was just put aside for me when I put it in the cart.
So I got an email this morning telling me what happened and the books were still available.
By then I had gone to another site and ordered more books.
Upshot is I've gone WAAAYYYYY over this weeks gaming budget, but my partner is cool with it and so I have Out of the Pit, Titan, Blacksand and the Hero's Companion on the way to me :)

Thanks for the advice, I'll get in touch with Graham when it comes time to grab Beyond the Pit. Stellar Adventures is out soon as well isn't it?

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