Newbee question

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raskal
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Newbee question

Post by raskal » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:45 am

During a round a Hero casts a spell and is attacked by an enemy.
The Hero is automatically hit (unless the enemy makes a fumble) ?
or
the Hero must also calculate his combat total for the round (the enemy hits him only if his combat total is higher) ?

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Re: Newbee question

Post by bottg » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:41 am

The latter. If the spellcaster wins, they avoid damage. If the attacker wins, they hit.

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Re: Newbee question

Post by Sukumvit » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:10 am

Welcome to the forums, raskal.

I don't now what others would say, but I've always assumed that each character can perform one action per round (even though I don't think the rules explicitly state that anywhere - it's my interpretation/convention;) so if a Hero had cast a spell at the start of the round, they would have left themselves open to a melee attack if they were within range (i.e. it's an unopposed attack, with only a fail or a fumble saving the Hero's neck that round.) For this reason, magic-using Heroes in my games usually keep themselves out of the fray, so they can "work uninterrupted." The exception would be if they had used a Minor Magic cantrip, which I tend to think are cast very quickly and easily; in that case, I would let them defend against an attack (i.e. make a roll.)

But it's one of those areas where the Director can use their discretion, I think. One of AFF's strengths, in my opinion, is that the GM has more freedom to interpret, modify and implement rules as they see fit; if you like the idea of a Hero casting a spell and engaging in melee in the same round, I don't see why you shouldn't allow it. You and your group are the final arbiters of how you play the game.
Last edited by Sukumvit on Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Newbee question

Post by Sukumvit » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:14 am

Graham snuck in again, while I was typing my reply! Serves me right for taking too long to figure out how I want to phrase things (and compulsively check spelling mistakes.) In that case, I've been doing it wrong! Oh well; as I said, it's a convention that I've adopted, so I'll probably stick with it. I like the way it makes casting magic a bit more risky (although Graham's rule will keep Heroes safer...)

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Re: Newbee question

Post by raskal » Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:11 pm

Thank you for your answers even if they go in different directions.
I have another question: if in a round a hero is attacked by an enemy with a bow and another enemy in close combat the hero must make :
a single roll for combat total for the entire round ?
or
2 different rolls for combat total (one against missile and one againt melee) ?

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Re: Newbee question

Post by Sukumvit » Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:39 pm

Hello again, raskal.

If you had to choose between the two replies above, go with Graham's; he designed the game! But as I said, there's nothing stopping you from from handling it differently, if that's what you want to do. It's your game, now.

As for your second question, I would have the Hero use a single combat total to oppose the two attacks, seeing as missile combat is resolved the same way as melee, but if he/she beat both of the opponents' combat totals it would have to be the enemy in close combat who was hit (the enemy making the missile attack would probably be some distance away, and all the Hero could do would be dodge/duck as the missile was fired.) Does that sound reasonable?

By the way, if you don't mind me asking, how did you get into AFF? (It's something we've been discussing in the "AFF should be more popular" thread - attracting new players.)

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Re: Newbee question

Post by raskal » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:21 pm

Sukumvit wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:39 pm
Hello again, raskal.

If you had to choose between the two replies above, go with Graham's; he designed the game! But as I said, there's nothing stopping you from from handling it differently, if that's what you want to do. It's your game, now.

As for your second question, I would have the Hero use a single combat total to oppose the two attacks, seeing as missile combat is resolved the same way as melee, but if he/she beat both of the opponents' combat totals it would have to be the enemy in close combat who was hit (the enemy making the missile attack would probably be some distance away, and all the Hero could do would be dodge/duck as the missile was fired.) Does that sound reasonable?

By the way, if you don't mind me asking, how did you get into AFF? (It's something we've been discussing in the "AFF should be more popular" thread - attracting new players.)
Thanks @Sukumvit but i do not understand how "go with Graham". :oops:
In my first test with Défis Fantastiques (the french version of AFF2) i use a single combat total but i am not sure if it's the right way.

I have known DF/AFF for a long time but I hadn't had the opportunity to play it. Recently, a friend on the other side of France asked me to master by Roll20 and we chose DF/AFF. The first game session has a lot of fun but I'm not used to mastering rules with such a free approach.

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Re: Newbee question

Post by Sukumvit » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:26 pm

I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'I do not understand how "go with Graham," ' but what I meant was that bottg, who also answered your initial question, is Graham Bottley, who wrote AFF2; so if you're looking for an official rules answer, his answer by far takes precedence over mine (i.e. let the Hero engage in melee if attacked, even if they cast a spell that round.)

On the subject of not being used to games with such a free approach, you'll find that there are a few "grey areas" in the rules (even more if, like me, you don't always pay enough attention to small details!) This is because it was intended to be streamlined and fast-playing (rather than an exhaustive simulation, like Runequest.) Some people struggle with that, because they're used to having a comprehensive rule-set that covers all eventualities; others like being freed from very detailed, complex rules, and prefer to make an instinctive call if something comes up that the rules don't mention (i.e. there isn't a universal "right way" to handle some things.) As you play more, you'll form a view as to which camp you fall into.
Last edited by Sukumvit on Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Newbee question

Post by SkinnyOrc » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:11 am

The important point to understand is that in AFF2 you have less chance of being hit if you are experienced in combat. Which when you think about it is completely as it should be. That in other games your chance of being hit is only determined by your armour and other defensive equipment and not by your experience in combat makes no sense at all.

Someone attacking you is not an action on your part, and your combat experience making you harder to hit doesn't change that.

So if a wizard is attacked while casting it's a normal opposed combat roll, except that if the wizard wins they do no damage because they're not attacking (with a weapon). That's the same as when a PC is in melee with multiple enemies. They pick one to attack and that's the only one they can damage, but they still make opposed combat rolls against the rest to see if they're hit by them.

In AFF there is a penalty to the casting roll if you're being targeted with missiles, and a bigger penalty if you're the target of melee attacks. So the spell is more likely to fail. But being hit or not being hit makes no difference beyond that. In fact because the order of events is missiles, spells, melee, you don't know if a melee attack hits until after the spell takes effect. It is possible though that a missile kills the wizard, in which case they never get to complete the spell, but that's not going to happen often.

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Re: Newbee question

Post by raskal » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:38 am

@Sukumvit : yes, ma question was how to contact Graham. Now, i know because it's bottg. Thanks
@SkinnyOrc : Thanks, it's very clear.

On my blog, you will find some post about Défis Fanstatiques / AFF2 :
http://theraskalrpg.blogspot.com/search ... ntastiques

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Re: Newbee question

Post by raskal » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:43 am

I have a new question (sorry :P ) perhaps more for Graham but the point of view of every skilled game master is useful

In the MOVEMENT ACTIONS chapter, the gamebook says "In a fight, or any situation where accurate movement rates are required, a Hero can be assumed to move 10 metres per combat round."

But for the Fleet Footed talent, the gamebook says "The Hero can move three metres in combat rather than the usual two..." and in the french version (Défis Fantastique) the movement is 2m per combat round

So what is the correct mouvement for a combat round : 10 metres ? 2 metres ?

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Re: Newbee question

Post by Sukumvit » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:03 am

Strolling along one of the many paths in his garden, Destiny continued to read from his book: "while nobody was looking, Sukumvit quietly scuttled towards the exit, sticking close to the wall and making the shadows work in his favour. Crushed by his poor grasp of the finer points of combat rules, but cheered by the fact that he was really good at Carcassonne, he slipped away into the night. SkinnyOrc, meanwhile, had a new question to answer. Clearing his throat, he began to speak..." :lol:

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Re: Newbee question

Post by SkinnyOrc » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:35 am

raskal wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:43 am
a Hero can be assumed to move 10 metres per combat round
It seems that sentence was changed from 2m to 10m in recent printings, and the other reference to it in the Fleet Footed talent was missed (I'd just take this as giving +50%). Graham can probably confirm but that seems like a deliberate change, and as a round is 10 seconds long being able to move 10m is reasonable. Some printings also say in one place a round is 2 seconds long and in another that it's 10 seconds. But the official errata confirms that should be 10 seconds.
Sukumvit wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:03 am
but cheered by the fact that he was really good at Carcassonne, he slipped away into the night.
I've had Carcassonne on my iPad for years now and still don't really know how to play it. :lol:

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Re: Newbee question

Post by Sukumvit » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:06 am

There, you see? SkinnyOrc is the main man for rules questions, if Graham's not around.

At the risk of muddying the waters: also confused by the disparity between the two given distances, I ruled that the 10 metres applies to sprinting across the battle-zone, while the 2 (or 3) metres applies to moving while engaged in melee; this is mainly based on the rules used in other games, though; I just carried the same approach over to AFF. Again, it isn't "correct," but it's what I've got used to, and makes a bit of sense.

Oh, and being really good at Carcassonne isn't that impressive, really; I'm pretty ropey at Go, Shogi and Xiangqi. Doesn't stop me playing them, though. I enjoy the "optimism-excitement-humiliating defeat" cycle... :roll:
Last edited by Sukumvit on Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Newbee question

Post by SkinnyOrc » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:21 am

Well after an intro like that I kind of had to have a go at it. ;)

I also have Settlers of Catan on my iPad and don't really know how that works either...
raskal wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:38 am
On my blog, you will find some post about Défis Fanstatiques / AFF2 :
http://theraskalrpg.blogspot.com/search ... ntastiques
Your blog is an entertaining read, even through Google Translate!

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