Gold value in game books vs RPG/titan

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darksoul
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Gold value in game books vs RPG/titan

Post by darksoul » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:33 am

I'm bringing this up to see what kind of discussion it creates.
There's a huge difference in price of things in the game books compared to the RPG and titan. You can buy items from Yaztromo very cheap compared to what the game books suggest. Has anyone made any adjustments in their games for this gold price difference?

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Re: Gold value in game books vs RPG/titan

Post by Slloyd14 » Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:13 pm

I think the gamebooks always had low prices for things in the name of simplicity and should almost never be used as a reliable guide (Magehunter is the exception).

The cheapest magic item sundries have a recipe cost of 50gp and raw materials cost of 1gp minimum and cost of equipmen/t of 1000gp (I think, off the top of my head).

Basically, the cost of starting AND the raw materials and the time is going to make even the cheapest magic item cost a lot more than 2-3gp. In my adventurers, Elvish waybread is probably the cheapest sundry (like a meal, but restores 4 stamina instead of 2 and is half the weight) and that costs 10gp.
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Re: Gold value in game books vs RPG/titan

Post by Mr Nibbs » Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:27 pm

One way of looking at this is that Titan was a compilation of over 70 books and had no common reference - it's like a pick & mix. AFF2 introduces a base reference and allows for variation. It works as it is and can be customised as you like within given parameters and still be recognised as Titan.

I think the gold values are one of many other inconsistencies in Titan. There is a similar situation with the new base maps which passed the first test ok and will get more development this year. The maps will be read and interpreted by authors, gm's and players, all of whom have different ideas and want different information.
Any ideas about that?

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Re: Gold value in game books vs RPG/titan

Post by darksoul » Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:44 am

The issue I have with the price difference is that I can't use the Gamebooks as a guide for selling items.
I didn't mind different prices in different game books. That could be explained as different currency systems sincebook settings were often different. When Titan came out it magnified the prices of things by 35X the gamebook price.
I know the new system uses Titan prices as a reference an I'm fine with it. It would have been nice to be able to go to Yaztromo and buy some of this things.

There is times where various interpretation is fine IMO. Sometimes it can be explained as inaccuracies or errors.(Sometimes RPG worlds are "too perfect" I can't think of an adventure where a player was given a map and suddenly realized that a mountain or forest they are looking at isn't on the map).

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Re: Gold value in game books vs RPG/titan

Post by Nuvole! » Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:10 pm

I have no doubt and follow the unified guidelines proposed by the RPG: there is no point on following each gamebook, as they are too inconsistent and they are not guided by a unified vision on this issue.
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Re: Gold value in game books vs RPG/titan

Post by torus » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:45 pm

Personally I prefer the prices in the gamebooks, i.e. things costing just a handful of gold at most. I tend to scale back the prices in RPGs which assume players are carrying around hundreds of coins just to buy lunch. A lot of trading should be done via barter anyway outside the most civilised parts of Titan.

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Re: Gold value in game books vs RPG/titan

Post by Mr Nibbs » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:08 am

My take is that it doesn't really matter which values you use. The prices should stay in proportion I suppose but if it works don't fix it. 100gp coins and 1000gp gemstones are useful and as Torus pointed out - money is not the only currency.

If the gamebook prices are a flat x35 they could be considered as a different currency. A simple exchange rate would do the trick without increasing the number of coins. Perhaps the gamebook GPs have a higher gold content and are worth a lot more these days?

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Re: Gold value in game books vs RPG/titan

Post by SkinnyOrc » Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:22 pm

I'm another who thinks your RPG coins should go a fair way. So I'm adding in a lower value copper coin (bronze to be picky but people call it copper) to pay for every day stuff, as well as a larger gold coin for the rich to use.

10 copper farthings = 1 silver penny
10 silver pennies = 1 gold shilling
20 gold shillings = 1 gold sovereign

For buying power here's some historical medieval prices I dug up off the net (I think 1300s):
1 1 pound loaf of bread = 3 cp
1 days cheap labour = 1 sp
1 days wages for a knight = 1 gp
1 good carthorse = 20 gp

Then there was an earlier one (Charlemagne, so 800ish):
12 2 pound loaves of bread = 1 sp
1 sheep = 5 sp
1 pig = 10 sp
1 cow = 20 sp
1 ox = 30 sp

I have no idea what conclusion you can draw from that except inflation's not new, bread went from getting 24 pounds of loaf for a silver piece to getting only 3 pounds!

No okay let's give it a go. Looking at the carthorse price that's in the rulebook as 60 gp and above we've got 20 gp, so it looks like the prices are at least 3 times higher than historical. But then looking at those older prices they're about 8 times lower again, which'd make the AFF prices 24 times too high! Bottom line is there's plenty of room somewhere between those.

So my plan is to divide all the official prices by 10 to make it easy. Which just means anything that says gp is now the same number of sp, and if it says sp it's the same number of cp.

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Re: Gold value in game books vs RPG/titan

Post by SkinnyOrc » Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:28 pm

Also I was looking into how the coin sizes stack up. The rulebook says 100 coins weigh the same as a "standard item" and you can carry 10 items without it slowing you down or a max of 20 items (without the Strength Special Skill). That means you can carry at most 2000 coins if you carried nothing else.

Which I thought sounded okay. But I'd like my coins (except the sovereign but the characters will hardly ever see those) to be about the size of a UK 20 pence piece and that weighs in at 5 grams. 2000 x 5g is only 10kg. I'm not in the shape I was but I'm pretty sure I can carry more than 10kg. So if I want the coins in my game that size I probably have to say there's 500 coins to an item.

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Re: Gold value in game books vs RPG/titan

Post by Ruffnut » Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:34 am

SkinnyOrc wrote:Also I was looking into how the coin sizes stack up. The rulebook says 100 coins weigh the same as a "standard item" and you can carry 10 items without it slowing you down or a max of 20 items (without the Strength Special Skill). That means you can carry at most 2000 coins if you carried nothing else.

Which I thought sounded okay. But I'd like my coins (except the sovereign but the characters will hardly ever see those) to be about the size of a UK 20 pence piece and that weighs in at 5 grams. 2000 x 5g is only 10kg. I'm not in the shape I was but I'm pretty sure I can carry more than 10kg. So if I want the coins in my game that size I probably have to say there's 500 coins to an item.
I think 10 copper is 1 silver and 10 silver is 1gp and all prices are divided by 10 just like you said. What do you think?
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Re: Gold value in game books vs RPG/titan

Post by SkinnyOrc » Sat Sep 03, 2016 1:29 pm

Yep works well because anything in the books that says gp becomes sp, and anything that says sp becomes cp. Nice and simple.

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Re: Gold value in game books vs RPG/titan

Post by SkinnyOrc » Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:28 pm

I had a look for real world prices for the fur prices thread and came up empty. What I did find was this medieval price guide, http://faculty.goucher.edu/eng215/medieval_prices.html. Now I'm not saying we should try and follow these exactly. I see Titan as being more renaissance era than medieval from the gunpowder weapons, so the prices should be a bit higher. Also these prices are taken from across hundreds of years and they're a bit all over the place (see the horse prices), seems speculation bubbles are human nature. But anyway it does give an idea of what sort of range things should be in (sp, gp, tens of gp, etc).

This is also interesting to get an idea of what a market was like http://www.historyextra.com/feature/tim ... l-shopping.

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Re: Gold value in game books vs RPG/titan

Post by Lorian » Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:22 pm

SkinnyOrc wrote:I had a look for real world prices for the fur prices thread and came up empty. What I did find was this medieval price guide, http://faculty.goucher.edu/eng215/medieval_prices.html. Now I'm not saying we should try and follow these exactly. I see Titan as being more renaissance era than medieval from the gunpowder weapons, so the prices should be a bit higher. Also these prices are taken from across hundreds of years and they're a bit all over the place (see the horse prices), seems speculation bubbles are human nature. But anyway it does give an idea of what sort of range things should be in (sp, gp, tens of gp, etc).

This is also interesting to get an idea of what a market was like http://www.historyextra.com/feature/tim ... l-shopping.
Thanks... I'll do some research
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